So throughout life we probably make millions of decisions. We probably make hundreds each day. From deciding to go to work, to deciding how to react to co-workers, to whats for lunch, to when to stop working, to what time to go to bed, etc... Sometimes things don't go as planned. Sometimes things go better than planned. Things just always seem to go. Whatever we do, we make it a priority to do what we want. As a great friend of mine says:
Regrets, Ive had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.
I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.
In my profession (I've never said that before. And I am talking about the youth pastor part, not the secretary part) my teens make decisions everyday. They wake up everyday and decide if they are going to live a life submitted to God or not.
Or do we just think we do? Has God laid out this masterful plan for each of our lives and we each follow it whether we realize it or not?
Some have asked:
"If God knows what decision I am going to make, then isn't He making it for me?"
Or, "If God created Hell, then He must intend for some people to go there."
Or, (This is one of my favorites) "If God knows (before I am born) that I am going to choose Hell, isn't He choosing to create a being to go to Hell and suffer forever? That doesn't sound like a very loving God."
Pick one or two or all three and have fun. And answer it the way you want to, not the way God wants :)
Paid for by the coalition for positive arguments.
17 comments:
As if I don't have enough to do, now I'm going to be following your blog comment argument...
Have you ever read anything about Open Theism? Put into its simplest terms - it is the idea that God chooses to not know the outcome of free will decisions. It is a self-limitation of God.
That is a really, really inadequate explanation of the idea, but it should get you thinking. I don't know that I agree with the entire open theist position, but it is certainly worth considering. If you're interested, I think I have some articles that I can e-mail you?
MY answer to the question is - something are above our heads - "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways declares the Lord. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts and my ways than your ways." - Isaiah 55
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_theism
Joseph- Sure, I'd love to take a look at them. keithdeckard@gmail.com
Sigh...I really really despise this. Sometimes, like right now and that one time before about the gambling, I feel like you write these trying to prod me.
I think it might be der Fernverkehrsstraße but I'm not 100% sure because like you, I was too busy goofing off in Frau Wisley's class. I've never even heard of that F word and neither has freetranslations.com.
I would also like to point out that you have made a very dangerous comment by telling us to answer it our way not the way God would have us. Dangeresque.
Now to the point. It is extremely hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that an all knowing God could NOT know what decisions I may or may not have made about my eternal life. I have somewhat given in to the idea that He chooses not to know.
It is quite the paradox to me.
If he could know, why wouldn't he? If he is really all knowing, then he already knows, and if he already knows, he certainly hasn't decided not to know. God couldn't be God if He isn't all knowing, could He?
It kind of makes me think about a scene in Minority Report. Tom Cruise has kidnapped this 'Precog' (someone who sees the future) and is running through the mall with her trying to escape. The whole time he's running, she's telling him things to do. Pick up an umbrella, stand still in the middle of the open area, leave change for a blind beggar. The entire time, he must be thinking that the precog is messing with him. Then, things start to fall into place. He stands still so that a man selling balloons will stop and block the view from the people chasing him. He sets the change on the floor in front of the blind beggar and the beggar ends up tripping the guys running after them because he's in the doorway picking up the change. When they walk outside, it is raining and the pursuers look down from above and see only masses of umbrellas. Things fell into place because the precog knows what was going on and what was best for Tom Cruise.
God sees that we're going to need the umbrella in the end to block us from the pursuers view (not to mention the rain), but we pick it up on a whim and carry it around until it is time. We wouldn't know that we needed it until the moment we do. We may choose not to pick up the umbrella, as it were, and find a different route. I'm sure there will be a beggar waiting for change around that corner and more random decisions for us to make there too. The question is: Will we follow the 'advice/wisdom/will' of our Precog?
That sounded preachy. I'm not sure any of that made sense to you, but it did in my head. I think we both know I'm a little iffy.
Is that a beta in your long "F" word? interesting...
I also appreciate your link to Wikipedia. It's my source of initial knowledge on many topics. A great place to start! :-)
As to your actual topic, I agree with what Joe said when he quoted Isaiah - I don't think we can understand the mind of God. Perhaps the mind of God follows some quantum theory where he both knows and doesn't know the decisions we'll make. I don't think my limited knowledge of the universe is adequate to answer this philosophy question. Besides, as we all know, there are no answers to philosophy questions. ... which is why I really disliked that class in college!! :-)
The ß is called an esset. It's a german character meant to sometimes replace double s's.
Ahhh, I see. Thanks, Kevin!
Kevin - So I am going to pose my question that you need to be able to answer if God knows everything. I think that in order for us to be able to believe in a sovereign God we do have to understand certain things about Him. Especially the things like, "Did he create me to go the Hell?" I think if we just say that His thoughts are higher than my thoughts we are not understanding what God is about. I am not one to buy into something just because "I should." I am not willing to drink kool-aid that is going to take me to a special place. I don't think that God wants us to believe in Him and dismiss all of the questions that surround Him. He created us as curious beings and thus we should be. If God wanted to create something that solely worship Him like a mindless brain dead vegetable He would have. We have to understand that God loves us and Him creating some people to be damned eternally to Hell does not do that for me.
So here is my question...if God knows before I am born that i am going to choose hell, then how can He be a pure loving God?
How can God be a pure loving god if He lets bad things happen to good people? Does it make God evil that He allows bad things to happen to good people? If God has the whole world in His hands, does he not control it? Why do things like tornadoes and floods happen to innocent people? If He controls the world (by world, I don't mean the people with free will, I mean everything else like the weather) doesn't He cause bad things to happen?
Unfortunately Keith, no matter how much you want to find an answer, there ARE things that we cannot understand.
Let me add on to that. I don't think God creates humans TO go to hell. I think he creates humans THAT go to hell.
If that makes sense.
I'm ok with that. But if He creates humans knowing they are going to choose to go to Hell, isn't He basically creating the to go there?
I know that if you had the choice between playing District and Wet Work on COD4, you'll choose Wet Work. The point is, you still have the choice and there may be some times that you'll choose District. He knows us well enough to know what we'll choose even though we have the choice.
Have you no faith?
so I am confused. Are you ok with God not knowing everything?
When did I say God didn't know everything?
Keith, I'll try and find those open theism articles today and e-mail them to you.
You weren't at Olivet in time to have Craig Keen for theology - but he said something that was interesting and that, at the time, I didn't understand or agree with.
He defined Hell as an act of God's love. The basic premise is, if someone has chosen their entire life to be apart from God, how would it be loving to "force" that person to spend an entire eternity in the presence of the God he or she wants nothing to do with.
Still not sure I agree with it, but it makes some sense. Of course, if you really want the big question, can God redeem people who are already "in Hell"
As far as creating humans that will choose Hell, there is always free will. Every human ALWAYS has a choice between God and not-God. If God were to only "create" those people who he somehow preknows are going to choose God, then there would be no free will. It's the same principle that says if there is no pain, there could be no pleasure.
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